About This Episode - 

Why do men "bench" themselves and take themselves out of the game as husbands, fathers, and leaders? Kent Evans is the Executive Director of Manhood Journey and author of Don't Bench Yourself. In this podcast, Kent talks about the one thing keeping men weighed down with shame, why he can beat anyone in Galaga, and how men can max out on God's credit card.

Warren Mainard is the National Director of IMPACT Players, an author, speaker, and connector. He has 30 years of ministry experience as a pastor, nonprofit leader, and church planter. You can connect with Warren on Facebook, Instagram, and X. Warren is also available to speak on your podcast or event! Email him at [email protected].

Kent Evans is the Executive Director and co-founder of Manhood Journey, a ministry that helps dads become disciple-makers. After a twenty-year career as a business leader, he embarked on biblical Fatherhood ministry projects. He’s appeared on television, radio, web outlets and podcasts. He’s a Christian speaker often at parenting and men’s events. He’s authored three books. The first, Wise Guys: Unlocking Hidden Wisdom from the Men Around You, was written to help men learn how to find mentors and wise counsel. The second, The Manhood Journey: Charting a Course to Biblical Fatherhood, aims to help dads not be good or great dads, but be godly ones. The third (coauthored with Eric Ballard), Bring Your Hammer, 28 Tools Dads Can Grab from the Book of Nehemiah, equips dads with practical fatherhood lessons from this famous Old Testament leader. Kent’s life has been radically affected by godly mentors and his lovely wife, April. They have been married twenty-nine years and have five sons and one daughter-in-law. He lives in Louisville, Kentucky, USA.

Additional Resources Mentioned:

• Don't Bench Yourself by Kent Evans
• Wise Guys: Unlocking Hidden Wisdom From the Men Around You by Kent Evans

Listen: Apple | Spotify

Transcript -

Warren Mainard: Hey guys. Welcome back to the Linking Shields podcast by IMPACT Players. My name is Warren Mainard. I'm the National Director of IMPACT Players, which is all about inspiring men to be great husbands, fathers, and leaders by equipping them to thrive in the relationships that matter most. And with me today is one of the OGs, one of the leaders in men's ministry over the last few decades. Not that he is that old, he is a young guy, but Kent Evans is the Executive Director of the Manhood Journey. He is the author of Wise Guys: Unlocking the Hidden Wisdom from the Men Around You and his latest book, Don't Bench Yourself, which is what we're gonna talk about today is, guys, how do you get yourself back into the game if you feel like you're on the sidelines? But Kent is a husband, he is a father, he's a leader, and so he is an impact player through and through. Kent, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you through our mutual friend, Jeff Kemp, and to be a part of the Fatherhood Commission with you just a few days ago was a real blessing. So welcome to the Linking Shields podcast, and, uh, thanks for joining us,

Kent Evans: Man, Warren, it's an honor to be here, my friend, and yes, I'm so glad Jeff connected us, and it was good to finally put a face with a, you know, real body, a three dimensional body with a face and a voice. So, yeah, I love meeting you last week. It was super blast. And, I'm just along for the ride in the fatherhood and men's space, and can't wait to talk with you today, man. It's gonna be fun.

Warren Mainard: Yeah, well I think every guy that I meet with, I tell 'em there are four words that will change your life, and it's pick up the phone, pick up the phone. Those, those four words can change your life if you just take the initiative to reach out to somebody that you don't know yet. Pick up the phone and then I say, there's another four words that will change your life, and that is tell me your story. And I have just found that if you just say those four words to most men, you're gonna find after a few minutes, that you have developed a friendship and a connection, a comradery, a brotherhood with them that you probably wouldn't have anticipated. So we love to do that as a part of this Linking Shields podcast is just to say those four powerful, powerful words. Tell me your story, and I know the guys would love to hear a little bit of who you are and how you ended up leading this men's ministry called Manhood Journey.

Kent Evans: Yeah, delighted to share. I, I'll kind of work backward. I am in my mid fifties. April, my wife and I have been married for 29 years, so we're currently planning our 30th wedding anniversary, Lord willing, if Jesus doesn't come back before then, you know, we're gonna go have some fun as a couple. We have five sons. Their ages 25 down to nine, five boys. One is married, one is engaged, and two are in college, and two are still at home. So we're kind of like straddling the out of the house, empty nest stage with a couple of them. And then still very much in the fight, with, well, not a fight. Well, no, some days, yes, it's a fight, still in the fight with some of the younger boys, but man, just different life stages for our boys. One's married and carving out his life in Nashville and two are in college. And so that's the life stage that, we're at the time of this recording. I have written a few books, love to write about manhood stuff, fatherhood stuff. Enjoyed it. Manhood Journey started about 15 years ago as a response to a pastor at our church who was asking, what could we do for dads around this place? And so we just started building Bible studies for dads to do with their sons. That was the very first thing we did. And, we were really enthused and inspired by the response to those early studies. 'Cause we found out number one, dads want a little bit of help diving into scripture. Number two, the average nine or 10-year-old boy actually really does want to have a substantive, meaningful, thoughtful conversation with his dad. That was amazing. And number three, God's word does what it says it's gonna do, man. It cracks people open, it pierces our hearts. It exposes our motives. And so yeah, we love studying scripture, man. And we love to encourage dads and men to do that both on their own in small groups and with their wives and kids. And so that's the heartbeat at Manhood journey. We exist to help dads become disciple makers. That is our objective. So, if you're looking for a ministry to help teach your kids how to change the oil in their car, or max out their 401k, we're probably not the right fit for you. But if you want that, if you, if you're focused on pouring as much Jesus into your family as you possibly can, then Manhood Journey is gonna be a resource for you. I myself, I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm still living in the same city where I grew up, and I've lived here my entire life, except for four years. Went to the University of Kentucky, go Cats, and that's where I met my lovely wife in Lexington. That's also where I got saved and was baptized at a church there. So, yeah, that's kinda my story, man. I grew up without, I grew up with a really cool mom and dad who gave me a lot of what I would call the guardrails for life.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: There was not a tremendous amount of spiritual emphasis, right? So like, I learned you should be good for your word, you should show up on time, you come early, stay late. Those kind of less life lessons. I learned those, how to work on cars, how to fix stuff. My dad taught me all that. He's a smart guy. Money-wise. He taught me about investing at a small level. My mom's amazing, has believed in me forever. She's in her early eighties and still one of my biggest fans. So in that sense, I had many things going for me as a young man. I did not really know the Lord. We grew up in a religious tradition that emphasized some acts of morality. But I just didn't quite get the relationship part. And it's not necessarily their fault, I just didn't hear it. But when I went to college, God baited the hook with this beautiful young lady who's now been my wife for almost 30 years. And so I got her and I got five boys, and I got Jesus in the process.

Warren Mainard: Man, that is awesome. That is awesome. What a cool story. And when you, when you mentioned that you went to the University of Kentucky, the Wildcats, of course, my mind immediately popped up to the basketball team, head coach John Calipari. We've got a study that I wrote a few years ago called, Man of the Moment. And, I've got a Calipari quote in there that I've recited many times. He said, "You've gotta learn to love the grind because life is the grind." And I think that's a great picture of what it means to be a real man, a godly man, an impact player is that man, every day you've gotta get in there. You've gotta be intentional. You've gotta understand that it's not about just like, you know, kind of Christmas and Easter or one day a week, but it's about doing it day in, day out, being the man that that God's called you to be. And if you learn to love the grind of it, then man, the whole journey, the manhood journey is all about, day by day, step by step.

Kent Evans: Well, and just so I don't get skewered by the attentive UK fans, former UK basketball coach, John Calipari.

Warren Mainard: Yes, yes.

Kent Evans: Just to be super clear, just so I don't get, you don't get a bunch of hate mail from everybody going, "Hey, it's Mark Pope, man, wake up." you know?

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: It's 2024.

Warren Mainrd: Yeah.

Kent Evans: And, but yeah, Calipari's amazing. In fact, it's funny, quick story. My mom is, again, big cheerleader for me and my boys. And one of my sons is adopted and is really tall, very tall, and for his age, and loves basketball. So about nine months ago, she sent John Calipari a note and said, "Hey, my grandson Timothy, you need to take a look at him." It was so funny. And I was like, oh, mom, that's hilarious. He sent, within like two weeks. Now, I dunno if it was him or some ambassador, but I think it was him, a quick handwritten note that just said, "Hey, I hope to meet Timothy one day, come to one of our clinics. Go cats!" And I got this note from John Calipari , within a few months he was fired. So, so much for that recruiting attempt.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. Hey, who knows, maybe you'll get him at the next school so...

Kent Evans: That's right. You'd go to Arkansas. Right?

Warren Mainard: Well hey, let's talk about this book. Don't Bench Yourself. It's a short little book. It's very applicable. It's very relevant to all men. But the big idea is getting off of the bench and into the game. And what is it that is keeping men from being fully engaged fathers, husbands leaders, and then what do they do about it? I mean, it's kind of my personal summary of it, but let's talk about that first component for a little bit, because being a great husband, father and leader is hard. And most guys don't have a great role model growing up. And even if they did, they weren't given a playbook for success as a man. So as a result, a lot of men kind of give up on their responsibilities or just settle for being mediocre. And you kind of call this benching yourself. So why do men bench themselves and what's kind of driving this epidemic of checked out, half-hearted masculinity?

Kent Evans: Yeah. Well, one thing that, I think at a spiritual level, what's driving it is the fact that Jesus called God his father, more than 160 times that we see in the New Testament, in the four gospels. That phrase, "my father" is almost never used for God in the Old Testament. So thousands of years go by and God has not called a father. And then all of a sudden in a few years, Jesus calls him the father over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And so what we find out is part of this new covenant, this new relational situation that Jesus was, painting for us, is that God didn't want to just be almighty God while he still is, that he wanted to be known as our Father. Therefore, if you happen to be a dad, and this book isn't only written to dads, but it's uniquely applicable to dads. If you happen to be a dad, I think you are Satan's enemy, number one. And it's not because, it's not because, well, if he gets the dad, he gets the kids, he gets the marriage, he gets the community. That's all true. That's, that is true.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: But Satan wants something way more valuable than all that he wants to be. God, he wants to be the God of the universe.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: And so it's like a job, right? He doesn't want to be the manager or the director or the VP. He wants to be the chairman of the board.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: He wants the whole thing. And so if he can destroy the image of a father, then he's recaptured that image for himself. So that's the real, I think, spiritual battle that's going on. And where this idea came from, Warren, is I was teaching at a men's event, and a guy asked in the crowd, we did a Q and A, and he said, what do you do when you feel like you're moving backward as a believer? Great question 'cause I think we've all been there, we've all felt that...

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: ...three steps forward, two steps back or three steps forward, 15 steps back.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: Some days are harder than others. And I said, well, before I tell you what I think we should do, let me tell you what I think you should not do. And that is don't bench yourself. And it just flowed out. Like I hadn't planned on saying it. I didn't prepare a slide deck for it. I just made that mention and I said, don't drop out of the game.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: You know that old adage, right? Where if you go, look at how many times Michael Jordan took the game winning shot and missed it and all that, and he talks about, I succeeded because I failed. We all know that. That's kind of a worm trope, but it's true, right? It's true that leaders, effective women, men effective, athletes, effective husbands and fathers don't give up when they fail. However, that's what a lot of us men do. And here's how we do it. Here's how we do it. You may not have divorced your wife. You may not have cashed in all the money and flown to The Bahamas and hooked up with some lady you met on the internet. Like, you may not have gone that far. But instead of being an engaged husband over the weekends, you just dive into sports, you dive into your fantasy leagues because you don't know how to win as a husband. So rather than play that game, you go play some other more childish game. Or in the evenings, you don't know how to communicate with your teenage daughter or your teenage son. So you just watch television, or you binge Netflix, or you dial into a podcast and put your earbuds in. You have benched yourself as a husband or a father. As I heard a speaker say earlier this year at a men's event near Atlanta, he said, "You don't have to leave the home to be absent." Ooh, what a great line. That is a line, man. And it's true. And what happens is a lot of men, they've mentally, emotionally, spiritually benched themselves. They've withdrawn from the more important roles in life, the bigger things, and they go play ball at a lower level 'cause that's the only game they know how to win.

Warren Mainard: Man, that hits hard and that hits home. I mean, just, I think the idea that I hear you saying is that men know how to win in lesser things, but they're completely untrained in how to win when it comes to these relationships that matter most. Like, how do I win as a husband? Like, when do I know that I won the game? When do I know that I won the game as a dad? Whether it's the day in, day out, or like an end of year trophy kind of ceremony, you don't really...

Kent Evans: Right, exactly.

Warren Mainard: You don't really get to see that.

Kent Evans: Right.

Warren Mainard: And so, like, if I work really hard in my career, I get a promotion, I get a pay raise, I get adulation, I get a bonus. These are all indicators that I'm doing my job well enough that I'm AKA winning.

Kent Evans: That's right.

Warren Mainard: Same thing with video games. I mean, any man who has a teenage son or young adult son probably has experienced how much of a presence video games have in the lives of young men today. And there's a real question as to why that is, and I think one answer is that they have a sense of control, autonomy for their lives and what they can do in this digital world.

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: But also because a lot of them feel like they're really good at it, that whatever game it is that they get into, they feel like they're good at it, whereas they don't feel like they're good at some of the other things in their lives that they don't have control in.

Kent Evans: Hey, man, I grew up in the pre, I grew up in the pre-Nintendo, pre-PS5, pre that era. However, however, if there's anybody out there listening to this show that wants to meet me somewhere and play a game of Galaga, I will smoke you.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: Like, honestly, I have given people that challenge, and no one's ever beat me. There's a level you can get to in Galaga where it actually gets easier than harder. Most people don't even know that. They've never been to that level. They're saying " What!?" So anyway, if you are a Galaga player and you think you're man enough, you call me anytime, any place my quarter, and I will smoke you in Galaga. And it's weird because Warren, that's like, I'm 54, bro. Like, I played these games...

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: ... literally 35 years ago. Like, or maybe 40, like if I think about I was 14 of, yes. I was four 14 years old playing Galaga 40 years ago.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: And it's wild how deeply they've burned into like my neural pathway.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: Because I don't play it anymore. I haven't played it in five years, but I'm willing to take on all comers. So we talk about, in the book, to your point, is four reasons men tend to bench themselves. And there's probably like 20. There's not, we didn't corner the market on the four, but I'll throw 'em out there, and you and I could talk about any one of 'em or all of them insofar as you have time. But number one, it's fear. We're afraid to play the game at, maybe at all. Or we tried to play the game as a lot of college quarterbacks will tell you when they go up to the NFL, they, one of the things you hear all the time is this game moves a lot faster. The speed of the game is a lot faster at the pro level than even the D1 college level. And a lot of 'em just can't keep up. That's why you get a lot of good Heisman winners who don't make it in the pros 'cause just speed of the game, man, not everybody has a brain that can process as fast as you know, Tom Brady's. Secondly, we talk about shame. So you try it, you give it a go, but it doesn't go right. And then you feel exposed and publicly humiliated. So you, you wanna bench yourself because you're ashamed. Or third, you receive too much criticism. You tried, you had some wins, some losses, you got too much criticism, and it just weighed you down, slowed you down, and you finally just ground to a halt. Or fourth, you're impatient. You, you've tried to communicate with that teenager in your home for a year or six months, or nine months or two years, and you're just like, it should be clicking by now. And it's not clicking. So you finally decide, you know what, I gave it X amount of time and you get off the bus. But fear, shame, criticism and impatience are four reasons that we see a lot of men want to bench themselves.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. Let's talk about that second one, shame, for a minute because, you know, I'm immediately thinking about so many men that share with me that they're dealing with a shame usually over some kind of a hidden addiction, coping mechanism, or even just a trauma in their past that has never been brought to light. And there's something about when you get married, and then even more so when you have children, that those secret things begin to surface.

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: And they begin to cause you to submarine yourself. Or maybe another word to say would be to bench yourself. You don't want to be exposed because of...

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: Your shame, your addiction, or the trauma that you've been through. So men go and hide, they hide emotionally.

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: They hide, relationally. So what does a guy do if he is dealing with some level of shame, whether it's something that he is doing or has done or has had done to him...

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: ...that that can help him to break through that lie that's saying, you don't deserve to be here doing this?

Kent Evans: Yeah. Well, there's four steps we talk about in the second part of the book about how to come out from under any one of these four problems. And we can address those in a minute. But specifically when it comes to shame, the thing that I have grown to believe, Warren, now after being a dad for 25 years and have worked with hundreds of dads personally and tens of thousands online, most men don't have, don't really have what I would call like "manhood problems" or "fatherhood problems." Most of them have theological problems. And here's what I mean by that. Here's what I mean by that. For example, off the top of my head, without looking at my Bible, Romans 8:1 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: So, just for a moment, there's thousands and thousands of other verses and places we could go in scripture. But here's the question I would ask a dad who's wrestling with shame or a man who's wrestling with shame, do you believe Romans 8:1 or not?

Warren Mainard: Yeah, yeah.

Kent Evans: Do you believe it or don't you believe it? Because it doesn't have an asterisk. It doesn't go well, well except for... no, what it says is there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: So I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example that I think a lot of guys can relate to. And if you can't relate to it yet, one day, you probably will. And that is, you'll get to an age where your kids will be doing things over which you have no control, which that's basically after they're born. But later when they start driving and dating and going to college and getting married, they're gonna make choices as adults, young adults, teenagers, and you don't have total control over. And you sometimes wonder, if you still have influence and all that kind of stuff. And I was on a call the other day with some guys, and one of the guys has an adult son who's just way out in the weeds, man, way out in the weeds. This guy's lost. He's making bad choices. And it's like the percentages are not in this guy's favor right this second, his marriage may not hold together. You just can see this train crash kind of in slow motion, right? And one of the guys on the call was telling the dad not to feel guilty. Don't feel like this is because you were a bad father. And it wasn't bad advice. Like, I'm not saying it was wrong, counsel. It was great counsel. However, here's what's super interesting. Here's what's super interesting. Perhaps a more biblical way to look at that is to say, hey, you know what, as a dad, you absolutely fell short. A hundred percent 'cause you're not perfect. As a husband, you absolutely are gonna fall short. You are going to blow some of these plays. You're gonna make some errors, right? Even guys that went to the Hall of Fame, Derek Jeter, he made errors, now not that many, but he'd make 15 or 20 a year. That's a thousand ground balls. That's a pretty good ratio. But still, you're gonna make some errors. And so what we tend to tell guys is we'll tell that dad of an adult kid, hey, man, don't feel ashamed. Don't feel ashamed. You did all that you could do. That's the wrong reason for him not to feel ashamed. I agree with the first part of that sentence. Don't feel ashamed. But here's why. You should not feel ashamed because Jesus Christ has overcome all of your failures as a dad.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. Wow.

Kent Evans: So don't just go back to, well, I batted 300, I went to the Hall of Fame. I'm pretty good at my sport. Wait a minute, time out. What if the bat, what if the cost of getting into heaven was batting a thousand?

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: Never, ever, ever not getting on base with a base hit. And you had to play the field for your whole career and never, ever, ever make an error. Never. What if that were the bar?

Warren Mainard: Impossible.

Kent Evans: Guess what, it is!

Warren Mainard: Yep.

Kent Evans: That actually is the bar. The good news is Jesus jumped over it, and you don't have to.

Warren Mainard: That's right.

Kent Evans: And that's the thing that I wanna pour into men is not, well, it's okay. Your dad wasn't very good either, and you're doing the best you can. And okay, that's all the stuff you can get on Dr. Phil. Go watch Dr. Phil for that. But if you wanna know what God says about you, he calls you his friend. He says, you're no longer my enemy. You're my friend. And he says, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So the question about shame is, do you believe God's word or do you not believe God's word? Because if you believe it, shame completely evaporates.

Warren Mainard: It has no hold on you. I mean that's powerful. Wow. I mean, I've thought about that verse before. I've heard everything you shared, but the way that you put it together was just man, it really hits home because I think all of us as dads and as husbands we're probably trying some different techniques to self-soothe or self treat whenever things aren't going well. But really, at the end of the day, it's very simple. We all have fallen short as husbands, fathers, and leaders, because we've all fallen short as sinners. And yet...

Kent Evans: That's right.

Warren Mainard: ...it's not about what I've done or what I can accomplish, or how good I can be, or how hard I can try. Ultimately, it's about do I believe that Jesus has paid the price and taken my place on my behalf? And I think we sometimes, we think about that purely in a Sunday morning, sitting in the pew, walking the aisle, singing to hymn type of perspective. But to bring that down and into our marriages and into our families, and like to think about that, not only in how we see ourselves, but how we see our brides and our children. That's...

Kent Evans: Yeah, that's right.

Warren Mainard: That's a transforming type of of idea.

Kent Evans: Yeah. And whether the issue is shame or criticism or impatience or fear, here's four real quick steps that a dad can think through, and you and I can unpack those together. That we can take regard, no matter what weight is on top of you, whatever brick is on top of you and causing you to want to withdraw from the game, here's four quick steps all in a row. Number one, we wanna call it out. So, some people act like putting their finger right on their sin is like somehow more shameful or the, or the language of condemnation. It's not, it's the language of liberation.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: It's the language of liberation. So call it out. We can talk more about that. Number two, we wanna make it right. If we've done something and we've hurt someone, or we've fallen short, if we have the capacity, right? Insofar as it depends upon, you live at peace with all people. So if there's a way, if I stole a guy's, Zacchaeus, right? Today, I will return to anybody, four or sevenfold, whatever he said. So sometimes we gotta make things right. Third, we gotta leave things behind. We can't live in yesterday's mess. We can't continue to drag that weight around that Jesus said, he freed us from let's leave it where it was, and then finally let it transform. Feedback to the person who wants to grow is fuel. It's an accelerant, feedback to the person who believes that they're fixed and stuck. Well, it's a threat. But for the guys like you and me and the guy probably listening to this show, you want to grow. So feedback is your friend. So let your mistakes transform you. We've all done, I mean, more than likely, if a guy's playing a, if a guy's on here and he has ever played a sport or ever done anything that required any version of skill, whether that's repair an engine on the car, or play a sport or read a book, your failures can be the building blocks to greater success in the future if you'll let 'em. So it's, call it out. Make it right, leave it behind, and let it transform. Those are some steps we can take to get out from under some of these weights.

Warren Mainard: Man, those are practical, practical steps that are, like you said, deeply theological. I love how in the first letter that the gospel writer John wrote, he says, "If you say that you have no sin, then the truth is not in you, and you only deceive yourself." And so this idea of like trying to convince yourself and convince others that you haven't sinned as a husband or as a dad or it's not a sin, it was just a mistake.

Kent Evans: Oh, man.

Warren Mainard: Or you know what? Like, at least I didn't murder somebody. You're trying to get squishy to get out of it, but...

Kent Evans: That's right.

Warren Mainard: You're only deceiving yourself.

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: You're only keeping yourself from experiencing the breakthrough of forgiveness and...

Kent Evans: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: ...restored faith and relationship with God and with the people that you love. So, I love what you just said because I think that's something we talk with our guys a lot about, is can you specifically say what you did to sin against the people that you love? Not just to walk in with your head hanging low, saying, sorry, I messed up again, but to say I'm sorry that I, fill in the blank, that I...

Kent Evans: Yeah. Well, and what I love to encourage guys with, which sounds like, it sounds oxymoronic when I say this, but the more specific you can be, the better, right?

Warren Mainard: Right.

Kent Evans: So for example, if you go to the doctor, if you go to the doctor and you probably have like some kind of incurable brain tumor, and he says, you have a little bit of a boo-boo and he gives you a Band-Aid and some ointment and sends you outta the office, you go sue that guy for malpractice, right?

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: Because his diagnosis was terrible and irresponsible. And frankly, if you were to act on that diagnosis, you would actually accelerate your own demise. And so, however, that's what we do as men. So I'll give you an example of when this happened to me. And I share a little bit about this in the book, but, I was rushing out as, and I know this will, I know a lot of guys will relate to this 'cause I've surveyed thousands of dads, so I know what they say their issues are. So, they don't have enough time and they get angry too quickly. So, okay, let's put both of those together in the life of Ken Evans. We're running out one night to go to a baseball game that I'm the coach of, and my kids are playing. One of my boys is playing on this team, and we gotta hustle 'cause I gotta get there and have the balls and stuff before the game. So I wanna get there in a hurry. And everybody's taking too long to get in the car, as is the case generally. And so I'm barking at him and going, let's go. Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: So I'm getting my 9-year-old in the car, and he's taking his own sweet time. And, around the back of the car, my 13-year-old, a 12-year-old at the time, goes and gets in and we get in and it takes a while, and I'm barking and yelling, and we finally get in the car and we get to the baseball game, which is a church league, by the way. So we get there, all smiles, and we're happy while dad was yelling at him the whole way there, okay? So we're driving, get there, and then later that night we come back and my wife says to me, "Hey, honey, I gotta tell you something you're not gonna want to hear." Which, by the way, if you happen to be a woman who snuck into this podcast somehow, and you're listening, that is brilliant. That's actually like right out of like, wife excellent academy 101. Like, yeah, just say that to your husband. I wanna tell you something you don't wanna hear. And I said, okay, I'm brace for impact. And she says, when you guys were getting in the car earlier today, Timothy, your 12-year-old, she didn't have to tell me he was my 12-year-old. I'm just telling the audience that. So Tim, she said, Timothy was getting something outta the trunk, and one of your iPads that you use for your ministry fell outta the car is probably damaged. And he put it back in the car and I go, oh, it's an iPad. What do I care? We'll go spend a hundred bucks, get another one, or whatever. She goes, well, that's not the part you're not gonna want to hear. And I'm like so this gets worse. Okay, so she goes, he didn't want to tell you. And he asked me if I would tell you. And I said, why's that? And she said he was afraid of how you would react. Okay. Now I want every guy listening to pause for a second. And in front of you, you have two doors that you're looking at. One door is called "babyfied bull crap justification." Okay? That's what it's called. The other door is called "honest assessment." So let me tell you what the baby fied bull crap justification door sounds like. Well, I am the coach and it's important for us to be on time. And, that's just me being responsible. And there's a lot of people who are depending upon me, and it's important that we get to the... no, no, no. Let me help you. Let me help you. Let's go through the other door. Man, I'm sorry to hear that. You know, sometimes, frankly, often I create a spirit in my home of impatience and anger. And I do that in such a way that my own kids are afraid to tell me the truth. That's called failure. As a father, I have failed my wife and my children, and I'm gonna try not to fail them anymore.

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Kent Evans: That's walking through the door of honest assessment. So what most of us are tempted to do is to go, oh, well, I'm just being a responsible coach. I'm just
teaching them how to serve the team. They can't practice till I get there. Well then leave earlier moron and quit making your family pay the price.

Warren Mainard: Right.

Kent Evans: And so what I realized, and then I gotta go make it right, go to my 12-year-old, hey man, dad's created a spirit around here of anger and impatience, and that's wrong. And that's not your fault. That's my fault. And the reason you felt uncomfortable about telling me the truth is because I've failed you as a dad. But you know what, I'm gonna get back on that horse. I hope you'll forgive me, and I'm gonna try better in the future. That is calling it out. And that's putting our finger on the real issue that is not responsibility or coaching or time management. The real issue is I can be an angry jerk and I can do it so often I create a spirit in my home that I don't want. So I'm gonna have to go fix that. And that, that for me, Warren, I hope a dad heard that and heard me say, this is not language of judgment or guilt or condemnation. It's language of liberation. Because if you're not willing to watch the game film on the Monday...

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: ...and see where you threw that interception, you're never gonna get better as a quarterback. Let's go.

Warren Mainard: Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, Pete Carroll used to have a day of the week called "Tell the Truth Tuesday." And it was just built around that idea of like, okay, let's look at the tape and let's get real honest about what do we do well, and where did we fall short? Where did we, where did we mess up? Because if you can't tell the truth about how you did in that moment, then there's no opportunity for growth. So I'm curious, maybe like, put yourself in the locker room with a group of men. You're the coach and you're giving them a halftime pep talk, and these guys are on the verge of calling it quits as a husband, as a dad. You call the guys together, you take a knee. What do you say to these guys?

Kent Evans: That's a great scenario, by the way. The first thing I would say is, I would say, do you understand the cost of quitting? Do you actually know the cost of quitting? Because if you think that cost of quitting stops with your lifetime, you're wrong. That cost of quitting will ripple down for a hundred years in your descendants because the cost of you quitting is magnified by your children, if you have any. And it's magnified by everyone around you. It's not that you walking off the field just leaves a hole that we've got to fill. It actually demoralizes everybody in the stadium, the guy selling the popcorn, your wife sitting up in the stands, the coach, your fellow players, all the players who will play the game tomorrow night, they're gonna hear that same story. Because we see this opposite picture in the book of Hebrews. Let us run with endurance the race marked out before us. Because partly, partly because we're surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, it's not just that Noah went before us, and Paul went before us, and Ignatius went before us. And Clement went before us. And you know, Jesus went before us. It's not just that they are ahead of us in the race, it's that they're watching and they're witnessing. And it's so important that we do not give up. And we, and for most guys considering giving up, they have not accurately counted the cost of quitting. Secondly, secondly what I would say is if you think you don't have what it takes, you are both right and wrong. You are both right and wrong.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: And here's what I mean by that. Here's what I mean by that. Because you have the Holy Spirit inside, 'cause you have access to God through Jesus, you do have everything it takes. In fact, Jesus said that He gave us every, not many, not some, not most, not almost as many as we needed. He said he gave us every spiritual blessing that we need. We are God's workmanship, Ephesians 2:10 to do the work that he set out before us to do. So in one sense, you really do have what it takes, because you have the Holy Spirit, you have God's word, you have friends, you have community, et cetera. On the other hand, don't kid yourself. All by yourself, you don't have what it takes.

Warren Mainard: Right.

Kent Evans: You don't. If you're isolated, away from community, if you're away from God's word, if you're away from prayer, if you're, if you've run from God, if you've run from his family, run back because that's the storehouse of all the stuff that you need to make it go, man, to make it go. So on one hand, true, I don't have what it takes to be a godly father, but I know who does. And I know where my strength comes from when I know that, well then, shoot, it's kind of like shopping with somebody else's credit card. I was looking up somebody today 'cause I needed to do some work for our ministry. And I just happened to trip across the, you know, someone's online profile and a guy who we know and his net worth is like five and a half billion dollars. And I just thought, I mean, he recently bought a pro sports team. I'm like, okay. So if he were to call me and go, hey man, I need you to go pick up some groceries and here's my credit card.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Kent Evans: I'd be like, sure. Heck yeah, let's get the nice groceries, let's get the really good wheat bread with the kernels. And you know why? Because I'm shopping on his dime and it, the money feels unlimited, right? It feels limitless. Well, that's a bad metaphor 'cause God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. God's not a billionaire, right? This is ridiculous that he wouldn't take that much of a downgrade. So God has given us so much that we have everything we need. Everything. So you've gotta count the cost of quitting. And I'll guarantee you, you've forgotten something. Count the cost. And secondly, know that in Jesus with the Holy Spirit on board, you have what it takes to succeed.

Warren Mainard: Wow. That is a powerful, powerful pep talk. I'm ready to run through a brick wall and I'll just add this...

Kent Evans: Let's put the points on the board! Come on!

Warren Mainard: Let's go! Let's go, Coach! Put me in coach. I'm ready! Paul said it this way. He says, "Do not grow weary in doing good for in due season, you will reap a harvest if you do not give up." So guys, take Coach Kent's advice. Count the cost of quitting and remember that in Christ, you have what it takes. Whatever voice you're hearing that's telling you that you're not enough or that you you've been disqualified. You gotta, you gotta flush it. You gotta forget it. You gotta get your eyes back on the cross. Keep moving towards the future that God has for you. And, the blessings are to come because in due season, you will reap a harvest if you do not give up. So, Kent, this has been so good. I know that there are gonna be men that wanna learn more about the Manhood Journey because they've been so inspired by what you've shared today. So tell the guys like what does the Manhood Journey look like? How can they get involved? What are some next steps to help them grow as husbands, fathers, and leaders through the work and the books and resources that you put together?

Kent Evans: Yeah. I would say, man, by the way, thank you for that. And thank you, Warren, for being so open-handed to give me the chance just to share with guys for a one minute, love what you're doing man, at IMPACT Players and hope you and I can continue to partner together in the future. And that somehow at Manhood Journey, we can make a meaningful contribution to what you're doing. If guys wanted to know more, they just go to manhoodjourney.org, two words, seven letters each, manhoodjourney.org. And what you'll find is a bunch of resources, Bible studies, books, you name it. A lot of the stuff we have is completely free. Our weekly newsletter comes to your email, weekly podcast, weekly blog article, a bunch of reading plans on the YouVersion Bible app, bunch of eBooks, tons and tons of stuff we have today are totally free. And you can get to all of them by just going to manhoodjourney.org.

Warren Mainard: Okay. Yeah, that sounds like the best way to follow you. And then, are you active on social media? Is there anything that, guys should follow on, on that network?

Kent Evans: Man, I'm, one of these days I'll figure out, I'll make my peace with social media 'cause today, man, I wrestle, I really wrestle with social media, but I won't go into the whole, the belief system around that. But it, it'd be easier for you to track us at our website.

Warren Mainard: Okay.

Kent Evans: And I will occasionally share something on social media very rarely.

Warren Mainard: Okay. Alright, guys, go to manhoodjourney.org. Follow, Kent and the work that he is doing, go to Amazon, look for his book, Don't Bench Yourself. It's a very practical and yet also, easy read. So you'll enjoy it. It's, if you like the way that Kent talks, you'll love the way that he writes. So check that out. But Kent, thank you so much for being a part of the Linking Shields podcast. And you are the kind of guy that we could bring back a dozen times and it would never get old. So I hope we'll have you back at some point in the future. But thank you so much for being a part of this with us.

Kent Evans: I would love it. And thank you Warren, for what you do, man. Greatly appreciate you, my friend.

Warren Mainard: Alright guys. Thanks for being a part of the Linking Shields podcast with us. We will catch you guys next time.