About This Episode - 

How do men engage in politics and with politicians in healthy and productive ways? Dr. Michael Sprague is the Louisiana State Chaplain with the Capitol Commission and offers incredible insight on how to think and talk about politics and politicians during a time when even the slightest misstep can incite an angry mob!

Warren Mainard is the National Director of IMPACT Players, an author, speaker, and connector. He has 30 years of ministry experience as a pastor, nonprofit leader, and church planter. You can connect with Warren on Facebook, Instagram, and X. Warren is also available to speak on your podcast or event! Email him at [email protected].

Dr. Michael Sprague is the Louisiana State Chaplain with the Capitol Commission and President of Grace Adventures, which reaches out to political, business and spiritual leaders in the New Orleans/Baton Rouge region and beyond. Michael is engaged in relational outreach and discipleship, teaching, coaching, writing and speaking. His non-profit helps leaders think through the “Big Questions” of life and thrive as a whole person: spiritually, relationally, physically and emotionally. Michael wants leaders to not only win at politics or career, but at life. He often serves as a “non-political” friend to people in the halls of leadership. Connect with Michael on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Additional Resources Mentioned:

• Disaster: Betting the Farm on God in Life Storms by Dr. Michael Sprague

Listen: Apple | Spotify

Transcript -

Warren Mainard: Hello, gentlemen, and welcome back to another edition of the Linking Shields podcast by IMPACT Players. With me today is Dr. Michael Sprague. We're gonna be talking about engaging politics and politicians. He's got an amazing story and a very unique approach to reaching politicians that I know you're gonna love. But if this is your first time with us to IMPACT Players, thank you for being a part of the IMPACT Players Linking Shields podcast, which is all about bringing together leaders who are working towards the common goal of inspiring men to be great husbands, fathers, and leaders by equipping them to thrive in the relationships that matter most. If those are things that are important to you, you've come to the right place. We'd love to invite you to be a part of the IMPACT Players community by joining us online at www.impactplayers.org. But without further ado, let's welcome onto the Linking Shields podcast today, Dr. Michael Sprague. Dr. Sprague, how are you doing today?

Dr. Michael Sprague: I'm doing fantastic. And Warren, anybody that's committed to leaders and men, I've got a kindred heart with you and what you're doing, and so this is just fantastic. Thank you very much.

Warren Mainard: Well, we're gonna really enjoy getting to hear a little bit of your story, but just some of your bio for those of our listeners that may not know much about you yet, you currently serve as the Louisiana State Chaplain with the Capital Commission and President and you're the president of Grace Adventures, which reaches out to political business and spiritual leaders in the New Orleans, Baton Rouge region and beyond. You've got a great following on LinkedIn. You're constantly putting out amazing content there. But, in addition to that, you're a husband, you're a father, you're a grandfather, you're a leader of leaders, and you are a disciple of Jesus. You've had some amazing experiences that I'm excited to have you share, but maybe just take a moment to tell these guys a little bit of your background and as we like to say, tell me your story.

Dr. Michael Sprague: Well, I grew up in my life kinda centered around myself. Unfortunately, I was into sports and that was my world. I got sent to church, taken to church, knew about God, but didn't know God for some time. And in my, as a young man, I came to the point where I had a few dollars in my pocket. I had lots of friends. I did well in school, had good parents, but I knew something was missing. I just knew it. And there's that old saying that there's a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every person. You can try to fill it with pleasure or money or entertainment, whatever, but you know, that God shaped vacuum can only be filled by him. And, I came to the point where I was just saying, what am I missing? And I went to church one Sunday and a teacher who'd known me all, almost all my life, as I was shooting out the back door to get onto a basketball court, she said these words that have impacted me, "Michael, I'd hate to get to heaven and not see you there." Well, you wouldn't just go up to anybody on the streets and corner 'em with that question. But it was the perfect timing. And I thought all week long. And the next Sunday was Easter Sunday morning, and I only knew one verse in the Bible, John 3:16, for God so loved the world. And it was like that verse came alive in that God didn't just love the world. He loved me.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And I realized I hadn't given him much, and my life had been about me. And he loved the world that God gave his son. He gave me an offer, an invitation that whosoever trust in him and the promise being will not perish, but have everlasting life. And I made the most strategic decision of my entire life that has shaped everything in my destiny by committing myself to Christ. I didn't do much else for two years 'cause no one told me what to do next. But finally, I got around some people who took Jesus seriously and just have hungered for him ever since. There's no one so compelling. No one's so interesting. So no one that just knows you and yet comes alongside of you and wants the best for you. My friend, my savior, my Lord. I pastored 15 years in the Washington DC area after a time serving in government, I came down as senior pastor in the state of Louisiana and pastored, never knew that I was gonna be in the greatest natural disaster in US history, hurricane Katrina. It was just life changing for me. I wouldn't wish it upon anybody, but I wouldn't trade what I learned for anything as well. It's like God took all the props and security blankets in my life and kick them out from under me. And I never quite knew Jesus was all I needed until Jesus was literally all I had.

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And I found out experientially he was all I needed. I never quite knew what the word brokenness was all about prior to that. But God, God just broke me. And, you know, here I am a senior pastor in a fairly good sized church, and I need to learn a great deal about surrender. And the old line is when God really wants to use a man, he'll crush a man. And I needed to be crushed to learn more about a day to day to day dependence upon him and a walk with him where I could do my day with him. And it'd be the best part of my every day that I know that I know, that I know that he is, and that I can live in a living relationship with him. He's not just the religious guy. He's the life-giving guy. And I saw God, I had prayed for 29 straight years that there'd be one season of my life that I would see an Acts 2 miraculous kind of work of God. I never knew it would come in the midst or the aftermath of a hurricane, but some days it was every 10 minutes I saw God do things that couldn't be explained any other way, but by him.

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: Fourteen years ago, God, in an interesting way, called me out of kind of the traditional pastoral service out into the highways and byways of the world of government and politics. I had 13 people come to me independent of each other and say, nobody works with the top leaders of the state. Nobody kind of cares about them spiritually. Michael, would you do that? And I'm kinda like, what are you talking about? I'm a pastor. And I started leading two groups with key elected leaders. And I saw in the first four weeks, so many transformed change lives in four weeks among just judges and council people, senators and representatives that I said, well, let me give this thing a try. I really don't know what I'm doing, but let me just step out here and see what God might do on this mission field. And believe me, there are mission fields in the inner city or across the ocean. There's mission fields in high schools and in all sorts of places, but your listeners can probably imagine in the realm of government, it is a mission field.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And Democrats, Republicans, Independents, they need Jesus Christ. The rising star, and the person headed to prison. And I've walked with two guys through their prison experience, the people in between, the governor, the senators, the reps, they need Jesus. And I try to be just a friend to them in the halls of leadership. And I'm just there as hopefully a trust filled friend to these leaders, not wanting one thing from 'em. I don't want money. I don't want votes. I don't have an agenda. I don't wanna be a pain in their backside, but if they'll allow me to be a friend, I wanna be a true friend who cares about them, their family, and if they wanna take a step of faith, I wanna pour gasoline all over that.

Warren Mainard: Wow. What an incredible mission. And the journey that it took to get there, I'm guessing that was it in that time with the Katrina recovery, did that prompt you working with some political leaders to try to bring some restoration back to the city of New Orleans? And that kinda paved the way for what you're doing now? Or was it just purely God kinda sovereignly dropping this in your lap?

Dr. Michael Sprague: Yeah. What a great question. I can look back and see how God has just connected the dots. I grew up in the Washington DC area. All my family was in government. I was around it my whole life. Never dreamed that when I went to Louisiana, God would take me and put me involved in that field, both in Louisiana and at numbers of occasions up on Capitol Hill and Washington, DC But after Katrina, we were right at ground zero, and we had a hundred to 300 people every single day for almost four years, sleep on the floor of our worship center, eat in the worship center, be sent out to restore homes and lives for free. And most of those 30,000 people in those first couple years, we put at the disposal of people in the community, mayors and council people and police officers, and even the governor, found out about what we were doing, unbeknownst to me, because I was just serving in a local flock, a local community where people were, at least at the beginning, living and dying daily and in great, great desperation. When we made contacts with those elected leaders, I tell you, they were so appreciative, and you couldn't have bill, paid $2 million for the goodwill that you just received by serving, wanting nothing in return.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And God taught me a lot from that, that when that's the way that you serve, God often brings a fruit out of that that you never could expect, but deepens and widens the kingdom of God. It was a God work. I didn't know what I was doing, remember?

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: God was just making it up every day. And over time, my motto became, bet the farm on God, because if it were up to Michael, I mean, the thing would've been a complete disaster. But with God, he can do some of his best work in the midst of a disaster.

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And, and I saw it time, after time, after time.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. So here you have, Michael Sprague, pastor, senior pastor of a church moving into a realm of ministering to politicians and I mean, what's the classic saying? Like, the two things you never talk about at the dinner table are religion and politics. Here you are trying to mingle those two worlds together in many ways. And certainly over this last few months, politics and politicians have been at the forefront of everybody's attention both on the national level with the presidential elections, but also on the state level with so many of the house and state and all those type of elections going on as well. So in the church it seems like it's kind of one extreme or the other. Either churches become overtly politically aligned, or they say, we don't want anything to do with politics. We're not gonna mention politics. We're not gonna even discuss anything related to politics. What's your kind of approach to that for men, for Christian men that are trying to figure out how do I engage politics and all of those conversations with my faith and in my relationships with other people?

Dr. Michael Sprague: Yeah. I think there's, you know, there's only so much a individual church can do, but there's incredible things that God can do through individuals in that church. We're all built differently and our callings are different. Our expertise is different. Our time availability is different. I really believe pastor's main calling is to encourage people to come to Jesus, leave them with Jesus, but then to equip them to carry out their individual callings in their realms that God is specifically calling them to. And so every person should be involved at some level in the sphere that God has raised them up for. And in the church, you've got all kinds of incredible people that are to be used out in the highways and byways in their occupations, in their communities for kingdom work. And part of that's overlapping with politics, which is just how we as a society get along. But I'd say one of the big things I see is that Christians often get into a place where they are the least confident people and forget about the hope that they have. I believe that we're to be the most hope filled people. We're to have a God confidence that leads us along. And it isn't despair and discouragement no matter what our circumstances are, it's knowing that God is at work. And as Chuck Colson used to say, "The kingdom of God will not arrive on Air Force One," and that's no matter who the President is, things can be going terrible in a country, in a community, but the kingdom of God can thrive. And God is always working through his people. And so I look at our future, and people often ask me about it. And I'm not a prophet or a son of a prophet, but I believe our future is either humiliation or humility, humiliation or humility. I can see the humiliation path playing out. That's what's happened to every single superpower that's come along. Most if you check an encyclopedia after 200 to 250 years.

Warren Mainard: Right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: Great countries get away from the values that got them there. And they often get conquered from, they fall apart from within before they get conquered from without. And if we think we're invincible based upon our economy, military, our ingenuity, as important as those things are, but if we do this to God or this to God, God laughs and the spiral will take place and people, groups and nations go over the cliff. That's the humiliation path. I can see it playing out, but I also can see the humility path playing out. God says he resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. And at one point in time, he even said, if my people, not the pagans, not the unbelievers, but if my people will humble themselves, pray, seek my face, turn from their wicked ways, God has this ability to, to restore and renew and revitalize a man.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: A marriage, a family, a church, a community even sometimes a whole nation. And if he could reach the pagan nation of Nineveh of all places...

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: ...can he reach pagan capital cities today? If he could reach a Nebuchadnezzar? I mean, Nebuchadnezzar, read his background when heads rolled, heads rolled.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: If he could reach Nebuchadnezzar, don't you think he can reach dictators today? His right hand is still strong. His grace is still available. And if there was a first and second great awakening, why can't there be a third?

Warren Mainard: Right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: I pray for that. I yearn for that. But men, we are not to be the people who live in despair, whether things bring about a revival or whether things are just plain old hard and we are persecuted. Jesus is worthy of our very best, and he's going to be building his church, his kingdom no matter what the conditions. And so I tell men all the time, this is the best time to be alive. It's the time he picked for us to be alive. It's the time he picked for our children to be alive.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And he's gonna give us the grace to make a difference in this, our calling. And so first and foremost, I'd say men, be strong in the Lord. Be courageous. These are our times and serve God. And know, even when we don't see what he's doing, he's doing 32 things, or he's doing 56 things. The Father is always working, John 5, and Jesus is always working. And that includes in us.

Warren Mainard: That's so good.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And men, what a day, what a day to be alive. This is our generation.

Warren Mainard: Wow. Wow. That was very inspirational. And I love that you mentioned Nebuchadnezzar. Of course, Daniel started as just a lowly young man, exiled, comes in, works hard, does his best, ascends to a place of tremendous influence. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, same thing. But then you've got the story of Joseph, and going from the prison to the palace to being the second person in charge ultimately saves the nation of Egypt and by extension Israel. And then on top of that, you've got the story of Paul kind of addressing the emperor in Acts and his willingness to engage in that realm as well. So I think for me, one thing that I'd love to know, and this is maybe a little bit more of a specific question, but I think it's one that I don't really ever hear anybody talk about. And it's this idea of what would you say to a man who is starting to feel some sort of a call or a pull to be involved more politically as a Christian, but maybe feeling like, you know what, we need more Christians in politics. We need more men of faith and conviction and biblical values in the political world, but I don't even know where to begin. I don't even know how to get started or what I need, would need to do to prepare myself to enter into that sphere. Do you have any advice for men that are maybe just wrestling with some sort of a call to get more involved politically?

Dr. Michael Sprague: Yeah. You ask amazing questions. Thank you. God has built that into you. I love this question. When I first started out, I did not know what I was doing. And so I just made appointments with local leaders thinking, why in the world would they ever meet with me? I didn't have a 'no' answer for two years. They were totally wide open. When I went to their offices, I'd ask 'em this question, "How many people have ever come to your office, ask you how you're doing, how your family's doing, and can I pray for you?" For two years straight, the answer was zero. Nobody has ever come and do that. I know one leader, he's a very effective, very popular leader. He says, I get a thousand negative comments, emails, phone calls, letters to every one positive. A thousand to one. He says, when I get one of those positives, I have my administrative assistant file it. And on a very hard troubling day, I pull out three of them and just read 'em to remind myself that I'm doing some good. I would encourage men, there is somebody, there's the fire chief, there's the chief of police. There's the mayor of somebody's small town. There's a council person. There is somebody in their sphere of influence already. Go and become a friend. Tell those people you're praying for them. The Bible actually tells us, and in fact, commands us in 1 Timothy 2 to pray for those in authority and not just the people we voted for. It's part of our calling. Get to know that person, be positive, encouraging, ask them at times where you can help be solution centered, push for good answers to good questions, and try to network with others to bring about some real change. I guarantee you, the Bible says, if you're faithful in little things, he will entrust you with more things. In fact, anybody in most communities who comes and tries to be positive and solution centered are people either of goodwill or good faith. Usually those people just say, this is amazing, and could we ask you to be involved in another area?

Warren Mainard: Right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: If men will do that, leaders will be very, very appreciative. And then look for where your sweet spot is, what your area of interest or expertise or giftedness is, and begin to move in that direction. But if you start as a servant, you've got, you will have all the opportunity in the world. I find, this is my observation, almost all Christians just think the area to be involved in is in the activistic side. And there's a real role for that. And to some degree, we're all to be involved. But most people forget there is a faith side of evangelism and discipleship that's important in the sphere of government. Just like most people think it's important in high school ministry, college ministry, if we don't as leaders and people get the vertical right, we're never gonna get the horizontal right. And if there isn't a movement where at least more people, men and women in leadership come back to the Lord Jesus Christ and the authority of the word of God, no matter how much we try to make better laws, all we're gonna do is either hold things at bay or be involved in a losing battle.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: If there's a change of hearts and minds, anything becomes possible. And if your listeners become trust filled friends to people in local leadership and state leadership, occasionally in national leadership, they are going to be used and a real player in the work of the kingdom. I guarantee it. And I just tell you this story, as you told those stories of Joseph and others, I sat in the Bible study in Baton Rouge with our legislators, senators, and representatives, and in walked a brand new representative with a great big Bible. And while he was state representative, he never missed a Bible study.

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: God eventually took him to Washington, DC and he's now speaker of the House of the United States of America. And he comes from a little out of the way rural district. No one had ever heard of him, but I guarantee you, he was a person who did this very thing. He was faithful in little things. He started in just the service roles. He was quote, "a nobody" in terms of politics, but as he served God, just like Joseph, took him from nowhere and put him in one of the leading roles in our nation. And you can agree or disagree with some of his politics, but I guarantee you, Mike Johnson is a man of the word of God. And he loves Jesus Christ. And he has a lovely marriage, and his kids walk with Jesus. And he is the real deal. And again, you can disagree with anything in his politics that you want to, but I guarantee you he's a brother in Christ. And if you were with him, you would first and foremost learn about his Jesus and not about his politics.

Warren Mainard: Wow. That's incredible. And I mean, just to go back to what you were saying earlier, instead of trying to win a position or earn a position it sounds like what you were really saying was number one, ask how can I be a blessing? How can I be a blessing to those who are already serving in the political and government, leadership spheres? Bless those people. Be a servant, be an encourager. Look for opportunities to support and to help them. And as you do that, as you humble yourself and come as a servant, God will exalt you. He'll lift you up into places of influence. And I think there's a lot of beautiful wisdom with that. When I was a pastor, I would say, if you're not willing to stack the chairs at the end of the service, then how can I entrust you to preach the word in the middle of the service? In other words, like if you don't have the heart of a servant to help prepare the seats, then how can I trust you with the more front and center type of leadership roles? And I hear you saying that same thing as it relates to politics.

Dr. Michael Sprague: I learned this through Katrina. Jesus said, Matthew 5, let your light shine before men in such a way they see your good deeds and end up glorifying the Father who's in heaven. We don't get saved by good deeds, but God has appointed us to good deeds, and they make a difference in the lives of elected leaders. I'd ask your men to also consider this, this statement, they might not believe me, but politicians are human beings.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: Politicians are human beings. They have the exact same struggles and challenges and trials that all of us have. And then they take on the toughest issues in a community. Our state reps, they make $16,800. They have an average of $40,000 a year expenses during sessions. They work a hundred hours a week. There's almost none of them that are independently wealthy. Half of 'em still have kids at home. And they are by and large there to serve. There's a few characters in politics, but there's a few characters in business and sports and every other place.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: But by and large, they are just your next door neighbor. Our leaders are auctioneers or leading little grocery stores to make a living, or they're unemployed, or they're just selling t-shirts to try to put their kids through high school and college.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: We can somehow look at them and label them. I love Jesus. He didn't put... interact with people based upon labels. And the most important person to Jesus was always who he was with at the moment.

Warren Mainard: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: Who he was with at the moment. And if you can talk, if you talk to God in the morning, you can talk to a senator or a mayor in the afternoon. I mean, if you can talk to Almighty God.

Warren Mainard: That's right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: A senator and a mayor, as you know, as they're made in God's image that everybody's special, but they're no more special than anybody else. They are people. And if we look at them through those eyes, in fact, we have the choice. We can look at people through categories, or we can look at a person. They are one humble prayer away from being my brother and sister in Christ.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: That's a person Jesus died for. And I'm convinced Jesus saw in Zacchaeus a future philanthropist.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: He saw in the woman at the well, an evangelist.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: He saw Mary Magdalene as not this demon possessed woman that's crazy. But he saw that she was gonna first take the resurrection message to key players who would take it to the world. Fishermen were world changers.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And if we just look at people or who people could be in Christ, I think it will give us a heart for those people. And if you don't have a heart for people in government, they're gonna pick it up real quick.

Warren Mainard: Now, I love that.

Dr. Michael Sprague: You've got a heart for people, they're gonna sense that.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. That really resonates with me. And kind of leans into maybe a flavor of what you were just talking about, because I mean, when you said politicians are people, it just hits with me because I think sometimes, anybody that we may put on a pedestal or that we see on TV or read about on the internet, it's easy to kind of detach them from the reality that they're human beings just like us. And we can do one of two things. We can either immortalize them or we can demonize them or villainize them. And it becomes a constant process of determining, is this a friend or a foe, an ally or an enemy? And they only fit into one of those two categories. They're either the answer to all of my problems or they're the reason for all of my problems and so...

Dr. Michael Sprague: Yeah.

Warren Mainard: I wonder, like, as men of God, as followers of Christ, how do we avoid that type of thinking when it comes to politicians? And maybe even like as, we like to say that IMPACT Players are called to be thermostats, not thermometers. That we don't just reflect the temperature in our home or in our community or church or culture, but we set the temperature. So when everyone around us is kind of losing their minds with their political opinions, how do we help others in addition to ourselves to see politicians for what they really are as men or women made in the image of God serving in a role, potentially flawed, well certainly all flawed, but yet not necessarily the enemy or the hero of our life story?

Dr. Michael Sprague: Yeah. Let, lemme tell you a story, kind of the extreme situation, and certainly not my every day, but a short time ago, I'm often asked to come and give the invocation at community events, Democratic events, Republican events, community events. We're a state that often has a prayer and the pledge before events. Maybe some of your states don't that are represented here online, but many states still have some of those things that I think are healthy. So I, I'm asked to pray at a town hall meeting for a United States senator. And these things rarely have 50 people that show up, but 600 angry activists showed up five hours in advance to get the 200 seats in the room. And, I'm the only one in the room. And when the first 200 got in the room, the leaders screaming out, control the room, control the room, and when they got seated, they were amped up and they needed a target. All 200 got up, pointed their finger at me and chanted for five straight minutes, "Shame, shame, shame, shame." And then they, two women got up and accused me of being Hitler and working with the Nazis. I'm trying to say I'm just a guy opening in prayer. But that didn't work. Finally, the US Senator got there, and I'm kinda like, he's the guy that you want, but who's up first? The guy with the invocation, right? When I prayed, the room went absolutely berserk. They're screaming Lucifer and separation of church and state and all kinds of nasty things.

Warren Maianrd: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And then they booed the Pledge of Allegiance. They booed for the next hour and 15 minutes as two, as they had 70 uniform officers there working with that crowd. And were ushering them out. The US Senator said to me, Michael Sprague, they even booed Jesus today. And CNN picked up the caption, and an AP reporter overheard that comment. And I was on page one or two of every newspaper in the country. And then for a week I was on cable news, I was on radio programs. But when they were booing me and chanting, shame, shame, shame, two things the Holy Spirit brought to my mind. Number one, and I think this is good for every man to have this etched into their being. The Holy Spirit was saying, my name, Michael, your name is not shame. You are a blood bought, redeemed...

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: ...most choice son of the living God. That's who you are. And the second thing that the Holy Spirit brought to mind was an old line, if a blind man stepped on your foot, would you be mad at 'em? And what's the answer? No. Why? Because the person is blind. And it was like the Holy Spirit was saying to me, these 200 people in the room, I didn't know them, but it was like the Holy Spirit was saying, an awful lot of them spiritually are blind.

Warren Maianrd: Right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And there was a point in my life when I was spiritually blind, and some people stretched for me when it probably was uncomfortable, and they put it up with me. And I need to be a man today who stretches for people who don't know Jesus Christ.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And I need to be willing to understand God is at work and he can save anybody. If he saved me, he can save anybody.

Warren Mainard: Wow.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And if he saved a Saul, a Christian terrorist.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And made him Paul think of what he can do in the United States with a couple of those people we don't like today. And if we remember who we are, and we remember that what people often do is just play out of their lostness. And why would we expect unregenerate people to do regenerate things?

Warren Mainard: Right, right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: It all comes down to whether they will have an encounter with Jesus Christ. And may we be the kind of men who are partnering with God in his redemptive work. It's not my redemptive work. I couldn't save anybody.

Warren Maianrd: Right.

Dr. Michael Sprague: But he even reminds me, and sometimes I forget, Michael, apart from me, you can do nothing.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: But if we jump into the middle of what the Spirit of God is doing, there is no telling what he's up to. And part of it is the redemption of leaders, men, and even people in government and political spheres. I guarantee you, in every state there is at least a remnant of Jesus, men and women who are serving in government. People forget that. But I guarantee you, in every state there is a remnant of followers of Jesus. And in many places, it's bigger than you might think.

Warren Mainard: Yeah. And I think about that story. Wow, what a powerful story. And immediately my heart and my mind went to the words of Christ on the cross. Here you have an angry mob, just hours earlier chanting, crucify him, crucify him. Now they're at the foot of the cross. They're mocking him. They're jeering him. They're laughingly calling him the king of the Jews. And what does Jesus say? But he says, "Father, forgive them for they don't know what they're doing." And I think that's what you did in that moment when you were standing in front of that, really that mob that was trying to overtake the event. And instead of flipping them off and cursing them and telling them to go to hell and die, you essentially said exactly what the Savior would have you to say, which is father forgive them for they don't know what they're doing. And the reality is that your story is far from an isolated event. I mean, the truth is, is that there are mobs everywhere and some are gathering in cities and in parks and on streets, but many more are gathering online, forming communities digitally. And they're chanting these same types of things. And I think all of us as men have an opportunity to respond in the same way that you did, which is to demonstrate the grace of Christ. And to be clear, that is not the same thing as tolerating it or condoning it. And by no means celebrating it, but recognizing that underneath that emotional outburst, there is a deep spiritual need that these people have that only can be fulfilled through the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so if we can see past the red faces and the pitchforks to see the spiritual need, it gives us a greater capacity to respond with poise in those moments as opposed to just, reacting with our own set of anger and fear and outrage towards those who have hurt us.

Dr. Michael Sprague: Who would've thought that Saul would've become Paul on that road to Damascus? No one would've predicted that. But the scripture tells us from Paul's own mouth that for some time, weeks or months he had had the Holy Spirit, as he put it: "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? Why are you kicking against the goads?"

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: For some time, the Spirit of God was pricking Saul's heart, and he was growing to understand that it was all true: this Jesus. And one day he surrendered to that, but no one could have predicted it was that day.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: I often tell men, use discernment. There are some people out there in our culture who are trying to hurt us and our families.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: There is an agenda to destroy.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And we need to not have our head in the sand as Jesus put it, be wise as serpents harmless as doves.

Warren Mainard: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Sprague: And we need to understand that there's an awful lot of people though, that they're not trying to destroy us. They're just confused. And they don't quite know how to live. And those are people that we need to, where we can get up alongside of them and invite them into friendship. And I found that the model that I got when I for many years, was people need to believe and then they can belong. I found out that the Jesus way was invite people to belong, and then a whole lot of them end up believing. And Jesus would just say words like, come follow me, or come and see. I just invite elected leaders, come to the Bible study, come to the governor's for a breakfast, come and let's spend lunch together and allow them to belong and enter into trust filled relationships. And it's just in that process of love and acceptance, it doesn't mean approval of all that they're doing, but in the midst of that kind of relationship, it's like that Holy Spirit is still pricking the heart and he's opening eyes, and he is still leading men and women to Christ. And then in time, three years later, they're Christian statesmen and women. And so men need to have their eyes wide open and know this world is hostile and does hate us in some ways, but that doesn't mean every neighbor that we have is trying to destroy our family. And has that kind of agenda for us. And so we're to draw near where the spirit calls us to. We are to love our neighbor. And even for our enemy, we're to pray for them. And God is still redeeming people, and it might surprise us, but that's what he does, and he's good at it.

Warren Mainard: Amen. And he did it for you, and he did it for me. And if he can do it for us, he can do it for anybody. So that's a great word. Well, as we bring this to an end, first of all, I'm just so grateful for being able to do what I get to do in these podcasts 'cause it gives me the opportunity to learn from great, wise leaders in different spheres of influence. Like, what you're doing, Michael. But if other men want to learn more about who you are, what you do, or they perhaps wanna follow your work, read your books, all of those kind of things, what is the best way for men to follow you or even get in touch with you?

Dr. Michael Sprague: Yeah. I post every single day on LinkedIn at Michael Sprague. I love to be a friend of your friends. I post every day on Facebook at Michael Williams Sprague. I've got a website, capitalcommissionlouisiana.org. If people wanna kind of check out what is Capital Commission, and you know, Michael, what do you really do? My contact information's all there. I wrote a book entitled Disaster: Betting the Farm on God in Life Storms. And that's available at Amazon. But I'm here in Louisiana and not planning on going anywhere. I've got two goals in my life. It gets simpler in some ways as the years go by. I want to introduce people, particularly leaders, to my friend and savior Jesus, and then get 'em into the word of God. And then I wanna pour into my two grandkids. I got no other aspirations in life than just doing those things. I'm not trying to build any ministry. I'm not trying to call people to Capital Commission. All I want to do is where I can touch people's lives and point 'em to Jesus. That's just fun and a blessing for me. And so if I can serve any of your team, the friends around you, just have them holler my way and I'll serve as best I can. And this has been an awesome privilege. Thank you for who you are and what you're doing.

Warren Mainard: Well, Michael, the joy is ours. Guys, thank you so much for being a part of the IMPACT Players community. Again, if you wanna find out more about IMPACT Players, please visit us impactplayers.org. Be sure to like, subscribe, share, review, all those fun things that you do on social media. But for Dr. Michael Sprague, for myself, guys, continue to fight the good fight, fight the right fight, and do it with integrity, truth, strength, and honor. We will catch you guys next time. Thank you again, Dr. Sprague.